User talk:Murgh - Revision history

Murgh: /* Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise) */ Murghose remark

2026-03-08T21:08:13Z

‎Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise): Murghose remark

Cholmondely: Commentary to the Supplementary to the Hypercommentary

2026-03-05T10:48:59Z

Commentary to the Supplementary to the Hypercommentary

Murgh: /* Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise) */ supplementary Murghian remarks

2026-03-02T00:36:19Z

‎Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise): supplementary Murghian remarks

Cholmondely: Hypercommentary to the Response to the Supercommentary.

2026-03-01T21:50:37Z

Hypercommentary to the Response to the Supercommentary.

Murgh: /* Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise) */ murghy retort

2026-03-01T21:17:04Z

‎Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise): murghy retort

Cholmondely: Supercommentary added to commentary

2026-03-01T12:01:13Z

Supercommentary added to commentary

Murgh: /* Cholmondelistificatory comment */ why yes.

2026-02-08T11:44:12Z

‎Cholmondelistificatory comment: why yes.

Cholmondely: Added Cholmondelistificatory comment

2026-02-08T11:03:56Z

Added Cholmondelistificatory comment

Murgh: /* Cholmondelarian comment */ well..

2025-12-19T00:26:17Z

‎Cholmondelarian comment: well..

Cholmondely: Cholmondelarian comment

2025-12-18T09:40:01Z

Cholmondelarian comment

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	:::::''Cholmondeley 10:48, 5 March 2026 (UTC)''		:::::''Cholmondeley 10:48, 5 March 2026 (UTC)''
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		+	::::::I'm sure you are uniquely aware of which OXPs operate in this way. Yes, F7 screens without goat soup language end up looking just lightly and needlessly altered by my mnemonic decoder, detracting from the desired effect and subsequent fun. <p>I shall apply your rundown for tests and compiling the "non-recommended OXP combinations"-list.<p><font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 21:08, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

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	::::2) Yes, that is the thorough way to go, thorough testing and listing. Famous Planets just an example of what "won't play nice" due to the way this OXP works. Also, System Features:Rings (probably Sunspots too) uses a savegame dump that prevents my procedural fun from working 100%. After many due tests I'll know.		::::2) Yes, that is the thorough way to go, thorough testing and listing. Famous Planets just an example of what "won't play nice" due to the way this OXP works. Also, System Features:Rings (probably Sunspots too) uses a savegame dump that prevents my procedural fun from working 100%. After many due tests I'll know.
	::::4) It would be interesting to have a go and see what is possible anyway, with this AI or maybe the one Wildeblood is experimenting with. <p>The one Mnemonic Courier ship in the WIPoxp is just an incognito clean-record vessel, which will be flying under the noses of police as long as there is no bounty.<p><font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 00:36, 2 March 2026 (UTC)		::::4) It would be interesting to have a go and see what is possible anyway, with this AI or maybe the one Wildeblood is experimenting with. <p>The one Mnemonic Courier ship in the WIPoxp is just an incognito clean-record vessel, which will be flying under the noses of police as long as there is no bounty.<p><font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 00:36, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
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		+	:::::2) I presume that Famous Planets is an issue due to the goat-soup-freeness of the F7 planet descriptions. This only affects something like 1/3 of the G1 systems, a smaller number of the G2 systems, and a sprinkling of others in G3-8. But other OXPs have a similar effect (but with fewer descriptions affected: Ionics (G2), The Assassins Guild (G7), Iron Raven (G8) - and there are also one-off rewrites including your Lave, Riredi, et cetera.
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		+	:::::Even in G1 (the most affected), with all relevant OXPs loaded, less than 50% of systems have their F7 descriptions rewritten. And the rewriting is clearly to add Lore.
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		+	:::::I wonder if it is possible to ''control'' the change-over between the vanilla descriptions and the rewrites. The swapping between the two could be controlled by a new equipment - or attributed to the on-going conflict between the Mnemonics and the programmers at GalCop Central Mainframe. I'll post the query on our Forum.
		+
		+	:::::But there are other Lore-based OXPs too. Particularly Littlebear's The Galactic Almanac which has two-dozen GNN news broadcasts which you might wish to check for issues (tucked away in his descriptions.plist). There is also GNN itself. Not sure about this - but there might be two types of GNN broadcast - those which are purely randomly generated and those based on a template. GNN's missiontext.plist contains some 200 of these.
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		+	:::::''Cholmondeley 10:48, 5 March 2026 (UTC)''

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	:::And I'd have thought that there has to be a way of restraining the vipers from nobbling your needed mnemonics (Sallman Wiest/Gladous Masda etc.) - perhaps one can just have a mnemonic ship which then becomes a needed mnemonic at a particular stage in the mission - so if it is nobbled prematurely, it is nobbled as an unnecessary mnemonic? Or perhaps your needed mnemonics have managed to swap their marked ships for ones with a clean identity?		:::And I'd have thought that there has to be a way of restraining the vipers from nobbling your needed mnemonics (Sallman Wiest/Gladous Masda etc.) - perhaps one can just have a mnemonic ship which then becomes a needed mnemonic at a particular stage in the mission - so if it is nobbled prematurely, it is nobbled as an unnecessary mnemonic? Or perhaps your needed mnemonics have managed to swap their marked ships for ones with a clean identity?
	:::''Cholmondeley 21:50, 1 March 2026 (UTC)''		:::''Cholmondeley 21:50, 1 March 2026 (UTC)''
		+
		+	::::2) Yes, that is the thorough way to go, thorough testing and listing. Famous Planets just an example of what "won't play nice" due to the way this OXP works. Also, System Features:Rings (probably Sunspots too) uses a savegame dump that prevents my procedural fun from working 100%. After many due tests I'll know.
		+	::::4) It would be interesting to have a go and see what is possible anyway, with this AI or maybe the one Wildeblood is experimenting with. <p>The one Mnemonic Courier ship in the WIPoxp is just an incognito clean-record vessel, which will be flying under the noses of police as long as there is no bounty.<p><font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 00:36, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

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	:4) Yes, outed (Mnemonic Fraction/Nullists) would be tagged as criminals, but so far they can't be exposed by police scanning. Also it would be sad if Vipers cut the mission short before the player arrives.<p>But you're right, it opens for other less computer crafty "enemies of the state"/"political criminals" who are easy prey for both police and professional pirates, in a similar way to those poor refugees I played with a while ago. It would be very cool to be able to manage to create a different set of behaviour for this group. I'm not yet sure if Gemini is up to that level task, but it is useful experience for me to manage to somehow get this far within the unknown javascript world.		:4) Yes, outed (Mnemonic Fraction/Nullists) would be tagged as criminals, but so far they can't be exposed by police scanning. Also it would be sad if Vipers cut the mission short before the player arrives.<p>But you're right, it opens for other less computer crafty "enemies of the state"/"political criminals" who are easy prey for both police and professional pirates, in a similar way to those poor refugees I played with a while ago. It would be very cool to be able to manage to create a different set of behaviour for this group. I'm not yet sure if Gemini is up to that level task, but it is useful experience for me to manage to somehow get this far within the unknown javascript world.
	:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 21:17, 1 March 2026 (UTC)		:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 21:17, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::2) If Famous Planets is giving you headaches, you can probably include any elements from it which you might want inside your own OXP - and then list it (oolite.oxp.Pagroove.FamousPlanets ?) as a "conflict OXP" in your manifest.plist.
		+	:::4) I'm not too sure where we stand regarding writing new behavioural AIs. The [[Oolite Javascript Reference: PriorityAI Documentation\|new system]] is more sophisticated but more difficult to master. I think that Littlebear and Phkb are our current experts in this area, but I'm unsure as to whether they have mastered all of its intricacies. I believe that [[User:Cim\|Cim]] created our current system, but he's been mostly uninvolved for a decade or so. He ''does'' drop in to our forum from time to time.
		+	:::And I'd have thought that there has to be a way of restraining the vipers from nobbling your needed mnemonics (Sallman Wiest/Gladous Masda etc.) - perhaps one can just have a mnemonic ship which then becomes a needed mnemonic at a particular stage in the mission - so if it is nobbled prematurely, it is nobbled as an unnecessary mnemonic? Or perhaps your needed mnemonics have managed to swap their marked ships for ones with a clean identity?
		+	:::''Cholmondeley 21:50, 1 March 2026 (UTC)''

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:17, 1 March 2026
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	:''Cholmondeley 12:01, 1 March 2026 (UTC)''		:''Cholmondeley 12:01, 1 March 2026 (UTC)''
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		+	::Bemusement would be a successful audience reaction, but some of the results from the "mission reward" text generator have made me laugh. <p>Yes, the root is very much in the simplest 8-bit lore.
		+	:1) I imagine that the original GalCop descriptions were fairly dry & dull "CIA Fact book"-like: stats and facts with a veneer of censorship.<p>Sometimes uninteresting, sometimes intentionally untrue, selective reporting.
		+	:2) I think it would work ''almost'' as well as "the original Elite" starting point, though this Disembodied text has an air of taking place later after all of that.. <p>It takes a blank slate-OXP narrative off in a weird direction. I hope it will work as a refreshing vacation in a crazy parallel dimension, however brief. For the full IronAss version I hope it will be an appealing permanent moody setting.<p>I haven't managed much advanced OXP-combination testing yet, but only at "Famous Planets"-level it's less successful..
		+	:3) It's getting on like many OXP projects in the "final third" tend to go. The fun creativity and problem solving has fizzled out, and the remainder is mostly complex small detail hurdles with a lot of trial and error and repeat playtesting. I am counting on Gemini AI for the javascript coding, and sometimes it needs many tries to get it right.<P>I had a lot of spare time for a while, so I arrived at a bare bones "mostly working WIP"([https://app.box.com/s/6p6da6ql781gl3ay99irx8xzkvctdcyk if you want to try]) for the non-IronAss-world version, but in the coming weeks there will be less time to finish it. Hope to get there it in end March, early April.
		+	:4) Yes, outed (Mnemonic Fraction/Nullists) would be tagged as criminals, but so far they can't be exposed by police scanning. Also it would be sad if Vipers cut the mission short before the player arrives.<p>But you're right, it opens for other less computer crafty "enemies of the state"/"political criminals" who are easy prey for both police and professional pirates, in a similar way to those poor refugees I played with a while ago. It would be very cool to be able to manage to create a different set of behaviour for this group. I'm not yet sure if Gemini is up to that level task, but it is useful experience for me to manage to somehow get this far within the unknown javascript world.
		+	:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 21:17, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:01, 1 March 2026
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	:But um, ''Xeptatl's Sword''.. I think the only thing I’d change is take most of those XS content links currently tucked under «links» at the bottom, and move them up and make a little «Background» (or similar) section around them underneath Overview. Seems too hidden where it is now.		:But um, ''Xeptatl's Sword''.. I think the only thing I’d change is take most of those XS content links currently tucked under «links» at the bottom, and move them up and make a little «Background» (or similar) section around them underneath Overview. Seems too hidden where it is now.
	:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 11:44, 8 February 2026 (UTC)		:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 11:44, 8 February 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Cholmondelistificatory comment (reprise) ==
		+	I will confess to being quite bemused by the growth of Lore for your new OXP - and especially with your rooting of it in the older wiki analysis of Lore!
		+
		+	1) I'm just wondering... what would one of the ''original'' planet descriptions have looked like, and what effects would the GalCoppian descriptive dumbing down have had on ''that'' specific planet? There is nothing that springs to my mind at the moment, but I find it all rather intriguing!
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		+	2) And will your radical take on the Ooniverse still fit in with [https://oolite.space/ Disembodied's Lore] on the Ooniverse which the new player finds himself in?
		+
		+	3) And how is your OXP coming along? Any progress?
		+
		+	4) Your GalCop interpretation seems to calls for a new approach to "criminals" - if some of these are merely absurdists/nullists who have been labelled as such, then they would not be aggressive as the pirates are. And there would presumably be other non-Mnemonics who have ''also'' been labelled as such by GalCop despite their inoffensiveness to normal ships for offending GalCop in some fashion.
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		+	And then this would feed into Bounty Hunting as a career. Bounty Hunters who are driven by a sense of ethics would try and avoid fighting them, while those driven by the profit motive would prefer going after them as they might be less difficult prey.
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		+	This might then call for more sophisticated AIs for those roles.
		+
		+	:''Cholmondeley 12:01, 1 March 2026 (UTC)''

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	::''Cholmondeley 11:03, 8 February 2026 (UTC)''		::''Cholmondeley 11:03, 8 February 2026 (UTC)''
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		+	:Yes, this last burst is very much connected to the mission idea I mentioned, and the mission that became «needed» to come before that again. And then the imagining became a lot of fun, so much that under the influence of the extasy of grandeur, I started to believe I was laying the foundations for a [[Lore#Canon_in_the_Lore\|a ''fourth'' school]]!
		+
		+	:But um, ''Xeptatl's Sword''.. I think the only thing I’d change is take most of those XS content links currently tucked under «links» at the bottom, and move them up and make a little «Background» (or similar) section around them underneath Overview. Seems too hidden where it is now.
		+	:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 11:44, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

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	:But yes, I did think Oolite gameplay was most fun with a fearsome police. In rich, high TL systems with a strong law it should certainly be quite difficult to be lawless, and putting up a good fight when outnumbered. This could be fine tuned down a bit with a limited and "controlled" OXP pool, but when filling the AddOns with all sorts of diverse ideas, I thought that semi-supercops was a fun molotov cocktail to throw into the mix.		:But yes, I did think Oolite gameplay was most fun with a fearsome police. In rich, high TL systems with a strong law it should certainly be quite difficult to be lawless, and putting up a good fight when outnumbered. This could be fine tuned down a bit with a limited and "controlled" OXP pool, but when filling the AddOns with all sorts of diverse ideas, I thought that semi-supercops was a fun molotov cocktail to throw into the mix.
	:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 00:26, 19 December 2025 (UTC)		:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 00:26, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Cholmondelistificatory comment ==
		+	Presuming that your current burst of activity is connected to your mission ideas at the year end...
		+
		+	Some years ago I stumbled across [[Xeptatl's Sword]] - an 8-Galaxy spanning mission OXP by [[User:Smivs\|Smivs]]. His website was still up at the time, so I was able to copy his background material onto this wiki. There's a lot of it.
		+
		+	Any ideas as to how it might be better organised? Perhaps a "Xeptatl's Sword category"? Or is this needless?
		+
		+	::''Cholmondeley 11:03, 8 February 2026 (UTC)''

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	''Why'' the new ships? (ditto for the newer IronAss equivalents). And, are they for specific circumstances? And, how do ''you'' envision the police in Oolite?		''Why'' the new ships? (ditto for the newer IronAss equivalents). And, are they for specific circumstances? And, how do ''you'' envision the police in Oolite?
−	:''Cholmondeley 09:40, 18 December 2025 (UTC)''	+	<p>''Cholmondeley 09:40, 18 December 2025 (UTC)''
		+
		+	:Hm. The way I remember, first motivation was to experiment with some new Giles tech revelation (the usual inspiration), in this case the plasma cannon that he demonstrated with the Behemoth, and I wanted to see how it performed on a regular ship, and yes, I placed this power in the hands of the law.
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		+	:"Nu Ships" because it came after the "Old ships" where I had plotted the models from the (more obscure) original Elite versions, and this one jumped forward in time as I tried to replicate one of the few ships I fancied from the Frontier games, that later generation Viper that breaks with geometric harmony with its weird curvy wings.
		+
		+	:But yes, I did think Oolite gameplay was most fun with a fearsome police. In rich, high TL systems with a strong law it should certainly be quite difficult to be lawless, and putting up a good fight when outnumbered. This could be fine tuned down a bit with a limited and "controlled" OXP pool, but when filling the AddOns with all sorts of diverse ideas, I thought that semi-supercops was a fun molotov cocktail to throw into the mix.
		+	:<font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 00:26, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

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	I just stumbled across these: [[Special:UnusedFiles]] - uploaded gubbins which was mothballed when the old links were updated.		I just stumbled across these: [[Special:UnusedFiles]] - uploaded gubbins which was mothballed when the old links were updated.
	:That's interesting and useful. I'm sure quite a few of those could find a home (again). <font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 12:30, 15 December 2025 (UTC)		:That's interesting and useful. I'm sure quite a few of those could find a home (again). <font size="-6">OLD</font>[[User:Murgh\|<font size="-1">M</font><font size="-3" >URGH</font>]] [[User talk:Murgh\|<font size="-5"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 12:30, 15 December 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Cholmondelarian comment ==
		+	And now I've stumbled across your [[NuVipers]].
		+
		+	''Why'' the new ships? (ditto for the newer IronAss equivalents). And, are they for specific circumstances? And, how do ''you'' envision the police in Oolite?
		+	:''Cholmondeley 09:40, 18 December 2025 (UTC)''