Distance (Oolite) - Revision history

Cholmondely: Added hyperjumping issues

2026-07-07T09:06:22Z

Added hyperjumping issues

Cholmondely: Updated

2026-07-01T22:16:01Z

Updated

Cholmondely: Added a couple of new quotes from "Realism"

2026-06-23T14:28:15Z

Added a couple of new quotes from "Realism"

Cholmondely: Added another point

2026-03-05T13:07:19Z

Added another point

Cholmondely: /* Links (a small selection) */ Added another

2025-05-19T11:55:35Z

‎Links (a small selection): Added another

Cholmondely: /* Links (a small selection) */ Added a note

2025-02-14T00:31:11Z

‎Links (a small selection): Added a note

Cholmondely: Added Navigation Beacons MFD

2024-05-20T07:14:40Z

Added Navigation Beacons MFD

Phkb: Updating BB links

2024-03-18T13:38:39Z

Updating BB links

Phkb: Updating BB links

2024-03-18T04:23:58Z

Updating BB links

Phkb: Updating BB links

2024-02-29T01:35:06Z

Updating BB links

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 [[File:Oolite-341.png|thumb|right|Planet, station, ship. Sizes a problem!]]
 [[File:Cobrafootball.png|thumb|right|Cobras & Football Fields]]
-'''Distances in Oolite can be problematic.'''<br>
+== Issues of Scale ==
 The two short rules of thumb are: (1) ships are very much oversized, and everything else is very much undersized; and (2) none of the sizes makes sense in relation to human size.
 <br><br><br>
@@ Line 11: / Line 12: @@
 *The planet is a mere 1,000 km from the star (while the sun is 150 ''million'' km from the earth).<br><br><br>
-'''Why?'''
+=== Why? ===
 Playability trumps realism in the Vanilla game:
@@ Line 29: / Line 30: @@
 <br><br><br>
-'''There are five possible solutions.'''<br><br>
+=== There are five possible solutions. ===
-'''1) Ignore the discrepancies and focus on enjoying the game.'''
+==== 1) Ignore the discrepancies and focus on enjoying the game.====
 {{QuoteText|Text=First of all, remember that Oolite is a ''game'', not a space simulation. This is because it wants to be a game, not a sim. So yes, sizes and distances are all messed up. Ships and stations are too big, planets and suns are too small, and too close to each other. But this is deliberately so, and we are not going to change it.<br>
 The reason is simple: Realistic sizes and distances don't make a good game. In reality space is so huge that you never would meet anybody else on your journey. Imagine the dozen or so ships you meet in the 500 or so kilometers between witchpoint and planet spread over the realistic 150 million kilometers between Sun and Earth. Even if your direction is only one degree off the perfect line, you would miss them all. And how interesting would that be for the gameplay? And finally, if you had a realistically sized station in front of a realistically sized planet, how would you ever even notice it? A grain of sand in front of a, well, planet. The result would be players in complete loneliness and virtually no interaction with NPCs. An utterly, utterly boring game. Therefore it was the right decision to screw realism in the layout of the planetary systems in Elite and Oolite.|Source=([[Oolite FAQ]])}}
@@ Line 37: / Line 39: @@
 [[File:Market inquirer2.png|thumb|right|[[Market Inquirer]] uses OU's rather than km's]]
 [[File:GalacticAlmanacLave3.png|thumb|right|[[The Galactic Almanac OXZ]] allows a choice of km's, miles, cavezzi, Torans & OU's]]
-'''2) Abandon the kilometre.'''
+==== 2) Abandon the kilometre. ====
 Use [[Astronomical Unit]]s (OU's) instead (some OXPs facilitate this: [[Strangers World]], [[Navigation MFD]], ''etc''). <br>
 Or adopt Byzantine plethrons or Venetian cavezzi! [[The Galactic Almanac OXZ]] allows a choice of units in both its F4 screen database and its MFD - as do the [[Navigation MFD]], [[Navigation Beacons MFD]] and the [[System Map]]<br><br>
-'''3) Redefine the kilometre.'''
+==== 3) Redefine the kilometre. ====
 {{QuoteText|Text=Ah, the km, pronounced koom (kuː ʊm) of course! An ancient unit the origins of which are long since lost. Legends tell of prehistoric origins, early scientists trying to express distance in terms of wavelengths of light and indeed some planets, most notably Teceinre, have a celebration to honour the legend which consists of pacing up and down in period costume, holding glass balls (representing ancient light sources) and using a so called "foot rule" and eyeglass to admire the wavelengths whilst reciting poetry. Claims that this was started by Teceinre marketeers as a way of selling more of their poetry have consistently been denied.<br>
 The ludicrous fractions and ratios needed to shoehorn this theory into accepted history or science are however simply not credible and most leading historians hold that it was once defined as a multiple of the average step length of aristos in Old Paris. Sadly through various reformations, rationalisations and standardisation efforts it no longer bears any meaningful relation to its origins and now used mostly by spacers as an indicator of distance generally taken to be the distance a ship would travel in one second when travelling at 0.001 LM or, less formally, half the distance a typical spacer can throw an Ou fruit at standard Isqueder gravity after a few glasses of Tibediedian Arma brandy.|Source=([https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=273439#p273439 Commander James 2020])}}
-'''4) OXPs'''
+==== 4) OXPs ====
 There are a number of OXPs which move the sun further away from the planet. See [[Guide to Ambience OXPs]].<br><br>
-'''5) Join the [[Rescaling experiment]] which is trying to solve this issue.'''<br><br>
+==== 5) Join the [[Rescaling experiment]] which is trying to solve this issue. ====
 ''You will notice that all the solutions are partial. The Rescaling experiment is probably the best bet to sort it all out (or at least most of it!).''
-== Links (a small selection) ==
+=== Links (a small selection) ===
 *BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20762 2020] - general
 *BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18303 2016] - see Norby's concluding post
@@ Line 65: / Line 68: @@
 *BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5443 2008/9] A step towards solving the f*&%§d-up distances conunundrum (has a good analysis of the problem).
 *Co-ordinates gotten from shift-F [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=1760 2006]
 *Note on distances derived from co-ordinates  [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=87268#p87268 2009]
@@ Line 72: / Line 76: @@
 *BB Rescaling Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16159 2013-date]
 *[[Guide to Ambience OXPs]] - compares the OXPs which tweak the sun-planet distances
 *[[Rescaling experiment]]
@@ Line 85: / Line 88: @@
 *[[Time]] - and there are issues here too!
 [[Category:Oolite]]
 [[Category:Factual]]
 [[Category:Concepts]]

@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 '''2) Abandon the kilometre.'''
 Use [[Astronomical Unit]]s (OU's) instead (some OXPs facilitate this: [[Strangers World]], [[Navigation MFD]], ''etc''). <br>
-Or adopt Byzantine plethrons or Venetian cavezzi! [[The Galactic Almanac OXZ]] allows a choice of units in both its F4 screen database and its MFD - as does the [[Navigation Beacons MFD]] <br><br>
+Or adopt Byzantine plethrons or Venetian cavezzi! [[The Galactic Almanac OXZ]] allows a choice of units in both its F4 screen database and its MFD - as do the [[Navigation MFD]], [[Navigation Beacons MFD]] and the [[System Map]]<br><br>
 '''3) Redefine the kilometre.'''

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 Playability trumps realism in the Vanilla game:
-  [[User:Ahruman|Ahruman]]: All the ships in Oolite are ridiculously large, even when you don’t take the tiny planets into account. Weren’t they at some stage converted from N ft to N m instead of 0.3048N m? If so, the sizes on feet were merely surprising, not silly. :-p
+  [[User:Ahruman|Ahruman]]: All the ships in Oolite are ridiculously large, even when you don’t take the tiny planets into account. Weren’t they at some stage converted from ''n'' feet to ''n'' metres instead of 0.3048 x ''n'' metres? If so, the sizes in feet were merely surprising, not silly. :-p
   [[User:Aegidian|Aegidian]]: Agreeing here!
-  The adjustment from feet to meters was necessitated by the increase in scale of the space station to it's full 1km diameter glory. If the ships had stayed scaled by feet then they'd almost all fit in the docking slit sideways - and docking is such an important part of the ''(original [[Classic Elite]])'' experience that it was necessary to scale ships to match.
+  The adjustment from feet to meters was necessitated by the increase in scale of the space station to its full 1km diameter glory. If the ships had stayed scaled by feet then they'd almost all fit in the docking slit sideways - and docking is such an important part of the ''(original [[Classic Elite]])'' experience that it was necessary to scale ships to match.
   The Cobra 3 is particularly huge! ([https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=13236#p13236 Aegidian, Feb 2006])
 <br><br><br>
@@ Line 27: / Line 32: @@
 '''1) Ignore the discrepancies and focus on enjoying the game.'''
-{{QuoteText|Text=First of all, remember that Oolite is a game, not a space simulation. This is because it wants to be a game, not a sim. So yes, sizes and distances are all messed up. Ships and stations are too big, planets and suns are too small, and too close to each other. But this is deliberately so, and we are not going to change it.<br>
+{{QuoteText|Text=First of all, remember that Oolite is a ''game'', not a space simulation. This is because it wants to be a game, not a sim. So yes, sizes and distances are all messed up. Ships and stations are too big, planets and suns are too small, and too close to each other. But this is deliberately so, and we are not going to change it.<br>
 The reason is simple: Realistic sizes and distances don't make a good game. In reality space is so huge that you never would meet anybody else on your journey. Imagine the dozen or so ships you meet in the 500 or so kilometers between witchpoint and planet spread over the realistic 150 million kilometers between Sun and Earth. Even if your direction is only one degree off the perfect line, you would miss them all. And how interesting would that be for the gameplay? And finally, if you had a realistically sized station in front of a realistically sized planet, how would you ever even notice it? A grain of sand in front of a, well, planet. The result would be players in complete loneliness and virtually no interaction with NPCs. An utterly, utterly boring game. Therefore it was the right decision to screw realism in the layout of the planetary systems in Elite and Oolite.|Source=([[Oolite FAQ]])}}
@@ Line 73: / Line 78: @@
 *[https://daftworks.co.uk/elite/index.php/Spacecraft_Scales Selezen on spacecraft scales] with links to a discussion thread (2011)
 *[[Newtonian modelling]]
 *[[Relative Gravity]]

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 *According to the lore, ''thousands'' of ships can fit into an Orbital Station (1km&sup3;).
 *This station hovers some 40-60 km over the surface of the planet (while in reality, the International Space Station hovers some 400km over the earth).
 *The planet is a mere 1,000 km from the star (while the sun is 150 ''million'' km from the earth).<br><br><br>

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:55, 19 May 2025
Line 60:		Line 60:

	*Co-ordinates gotten from shift-F [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=1760 2006]		*Co-ordinates gotten from shift-F [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=1760 2006]
		+	*Note on distances derived from co-ordinates [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=87268#p87268 2009]

	*[https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6777 Going the long way] (2009) See Daddyhoggy's overnight exploits on C64 Elite		*[https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6777 Going the long way] (2009) See Daddyhoggy's overnight exploits on C64 Elite

@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 *Co-ordinates gotten from shift-F [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=1760 2006]
-*[http://oolite.bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6777 Going the long way] (2009) See Daddyhoggy's overnight exploits on C64 Elite
+*[https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6777 Going the long way] (2009) See Daddyhoggy's overnight exploits on C64 Elite
 *BB Rescaling Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16159 2013-date]

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
   The adjustment from feet to meters was necessitated by the increase in scale of the space station to it's full 1km diameter glory. If the ships had stayed scaled by feet then they'd almost all fit in the docking slit sideways - and docking is such an important part of the ''(original [[Classic Elite]])'' experience that it was necessary to scale ships to match.
-  The Cobra 3 is particularly huge! ([http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=13236#p13236 Aegidian, Feb 2006])
+  The Cobra 3 is particularly huge! ([https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=13236#p13236 Aegidian, Feb 2006])
 <br><br><br>
@@ Line 36: / Line 36: @@
 '''3) Redefine the kilometre.'''
 {{QuoteText|Text=Ah, the km, pronounced koom (kuː ʊm) of course! An ancient unit the origins of which are long since lost. Legends tell of prehistoric origins, early scientists trying to express distance in terms of wavelengths of light and indeed some planets, most notably Teceinre, have a celebration to honour the legend which consists of pacing up and down in period costume, holding glass balls (representing ancient light sources) and using a so called "foot rule" and eyeglass to admire the wavelengths whilst reciting poetry. Claims that this was started by Teceinre marketeers as a way of selling more of their poetry have consistently been denied.<br>
-The ludicrous fractions and ratios needed to shoehorn this theory into accepted history or science are however simply not credible and most leading historians hold that it was once defined as a multiple of the average step length of aristos in Old Paris. Sadly through various reformations, rationalisations and standardisation efforts it no longer bears any meaningful relation to its origins and now used mostly by spacers as an indicator of distance generally taken to be the distance a ship would travel in one second when travelling at 0.001 LM or, less formally, half the distance a typical spacer can throw an Ou fruit at standard Isqueder gravity after a few glasses of Tibediedian Arma brandy.|Source=([http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=273439#p273439 Commander James 2020])}}
+The ludicrous fractions and ratios needed to shoehorn this theory into accepted history or science are however simply not credible and most leading historians hold that it was once defined as a multiple of the average step length of aristos in Old Paris. Sadly through various reformations, rationalisations and standardisation efforts it no longer bears any meaningful relation to its origins and now used mostly by spacers as an indicator of distance generally taken to be the distance a ship would travel in one second when travelling at 0.001 LM or, less formally, half the distance a typical spacer can throw an Ou fruit at standard Isqueder gravity after a few glasses of Tibediedian Arma brandy.|Source=([https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=273439#p273439 Commander James 2020])}}
 '''4) OXPs'''
@@ Line 47: / Line 47: @@
 == Links (a small selection) ==
-*BB Discussion thread [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20762 2020] - general
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20762 2020] - general
-*BB Discussion thread [http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18303 2016] - see Norby's concluding post
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18303 2016] - see Norby's concluding post
-*BB Discussion thread [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15242 2013] - general
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15242 2013] - general
-*BB Discussion thread [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=197457#p197457 2013] - fitting cargo in ships
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=197457#p197457 2013] - fitting cargo in ships
-*BB Pithy Post [http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=163759#p163759 2012] - Commander McLane
+*BB Pithy Post [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=163759#p163759 2012] - Commander McLane
-*BB Discussion thread [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11102 2011] - what is 1TC of cargo?
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11102 2011] - what is 1TC of cargo?
-*BB Discussion thread [http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7503 2010] - ship dimensions
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7503 2010] - ship dimensions
-*BB Discussion thread [http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5613 2009] - fitting pilots in ships
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5613 2009] - fitting pilots in ships
-*BB Discussion thread [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4917 2008] - general
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4917 2008] - general
-*BB Discussion thread [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5443 2008/9] A step towards solving the f*&%§d-up distances conunundrum
+*BB Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5443 2008/9] A step towards solving the f*&%§d-up distances conunundrum
 *Co-ordinates gotten from shift-F [http://bb.aegidian.org/viewtopic.php?t=1760 2006]
-*[http://oolite.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6777 Going the long way] (2009) See Daddyhoggy's overnight exploits on C64 Elite
+*[http://oolite.bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6777 Going the long way] (2009) See Daddyhoggy's overnight exploits on C64 Elite
-*BB Rescaling Discussion thread [http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16159 2013-date]
+*BB Rescaling Discussion thread [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16159 2013-date]
 [[File:Adder plan to scale (by Selezen).png|thumb|right|Selezen's spacecraft scales (scale plan of an Adder)]]